KattyJamison
So I'm kicking off the Food in the English-Speaking World discussion.
First off, one has to realize that English-speaking world is BIG. Indian cuisine is about as different from Canadian, as Zimbabwean from Turkish. I'll be talking mostly about American, Canadian and British, since I know those best.
American:
Some people think American food is a derivative of English and some think it's hamburgers and French Fries. Neither is exactly true, or even close to truth. Although, yes, Americans do eat pot roast, hamburgers and pound cake.
US is an extremely multi-cultural country, and was multicultural to begin with. Dutch, Spanish, French, British, Italian, Irish, Chinese and Indian foods are all over the place and they penetrated so far into the "national" potluck that most people here don't think of them as "foreign" foods anymore. For example, today in out hospital cafeteria you can get:
Muffins and pound cakes - British
Stuffed halapinos - Mexican
Strawberry parfait - French
Spagetti and meatballs in pineapple sauce - the cross between Italian and Hawaiian, I imagine...
Pizza - Italian
Macaroni salad - American
Apple pie - Dutch
and so on. And I did actualy go down there to check.
So, what that means is you can find anything you want here, as far as food goes, or nearly anything. Including salted cucumbers, сметана, and кисло млeко. But you might have to search for a bit.
Now, "sour cream" is prepared very much like "сметана", except is is done with cream, not milk, and it is never diluted with water or milk. So it looks like Russian творог, thick and smooth, not liquid at all. If you want it to look like Russian smetana you can dilute it with full-fat milk or cream.
"Curd" is not actually творог but a kind of consistency for milk products. "Творог" is "cottage cheese". Cottage cheese can be large curd, small curd, smooth and whatnot else. Most cottage cheese made in the US is made along the Northern European recipies (Skandinavian, Northern French), so it looks chunky (small or large curd). But you can buy cottage cheese that is smooth and a bit sour to the taste, like Russian ones, you just need to go to a farmhouse or specialty Eastern European store.
Salted cucumber (preserved in salted water with spices) and pickled cucumbers (preserved in vineager water with spices) can both be found in the US. But mostly cucumbers are pickled, with a few salted here and there, as opposed to in Russia, where there were a few pickled and mostly salted. Salt was hard to get here for a long while, so people used vineager to preserve pretty much everything.
Last thing for now. Americans pasteurize their foods to the fare-thee-well, probably with a battle-cry of "No bacteria remains crawling!" So if the milk does not go sour for a week and sour cream stays good for a month that does not mean they have preservatives or artificial additives; it just means that they are well-pasteurized. Which is usually a good thing, although cursed inconvenient when you are trying to make sour milk for pancakes.
Questions? Comments? Disagreements? Corrections?
First off, one has to realize that English-speaking world is BIG. Indian cuisine is about as different from Canadian, as Zimbabwean from Turkish. I'll be talking mostly about American, Canadian and British, since I know those best.
American:
Some people think American food is a derivative of English and some think it's hamburgers and French Fries. Neither is exactly true, or even close to truth. Although, yes, Americans do eat pot roast, hamburgers and pound cake.
US is an extremely multi-cultural country, and was multicultural to begin with. Dutch, Spanish, French, British, Italian, Irish, Chinese and Indian foods are all over the place and they penetrated so far into the "national" potluck that most people here don't think of them as "foreign" foods anymore. For example, today in out hospital cafeteria you can get:
Muffins and pound cakes - British
Stuffed halapinos - Mexican
Strawberry parfait - French
Spagetti and meatballs in pineapple sauce - the cross between Italian and Hawaiian, I imagine...
Pizza - Italian
Macaroni salad - American
Apple pie - Dutch
and so on. And I did actualy go down there to check.
So, what that means is you can find anything you want here, as far as food goes, or nearly anything. Including salted cucumbers, сметана, and кисло млeко. But you might have to search for a bit.
Now, "sour cream" is prepared very much like "сметана", except is is done with cream, not milk, and it is never diluted with water or milk. So it looks like Russian творог, thick and smooth, not liquid at all. If you want it to look like Russian smetana you can dilute it with full-fat milk or cream.
"Curd" is not actually творог but a kind of consistency for milk products. "Творог" is "cottage cheese". Cottage cheese can be large curd, small curd, smooth and whatnot else. Most cottage cheese made in the US is made along the Northern European recipies (Skandinavian, Northern French), so it looks chunky (small or large curd). But you can buy cottage cheese that is smooth and a bit sour to the taste, like Russian ones, you just need to go to a farmhouse or specialty Eastern European store.
Salted cucumber (preserved in salted water with spices) and pickled cucumbers (preserved in vineager water with spices) can both be found in the US. But mostly cucumbers are pickled, with a few salted here and there, as opposed to in Russia, where there were a few pickled and mostly salted. Salt was hard to get here for a long while, so people used vineager to preserve pretty much everything.
Last thing for now. Americans pasteurize their foods to the fare-thee-well, probably with a battle-cry of "No bacteria remains crawling!" So if the milk does not go sour for a week and sour cream stays good for a month that does not mean they have preservatives or artificial additives; it just means that they are well-pasteurized. Which is usually a good thing, although cursed inconvenient when you are trying to make sour milk for pancakes.
Questions? Comments? Disagreements? Corrections?
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26.07.2008 в 20:15That cottage cheese thing baffled me when I first saw it. We here have rather new trend of домашний сыр in groceries and it's something in vein of творожный сыр, i.e. it's not hard, it's... chunky, though small curd, if I imagine it right. But it's salty unlike usual "творог" (I call it in russian to avoid confusion), and not salty as salted, but salty as made with salt.
You see, here i'm interested less in cultural cuisine - we have restaurants and rather good books if need arises. I'm more interested in "how is that box/bottle/slice called and what it means" kind of thing.
So, as i can get it, there are another lines of divide between classes of products than we have in Russia, right?
BTW, just interesting, what percent milk do you have there (f this question males sense)?
And what are yoghurt? I suspect we have it different too.
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26.07.2008 в 20:38Okay. Understrand the issue... The two are kind of tied togeather, though, because you can't understand why things are called the way they are without knowing where they come from. But I'll try to be more to the point on names.
So, cheeses can be "home-made", "farm-made" or "commercial made", like anywhere. Their consistency can be as follows (so far as I know, I'm not nearly a culinary specialist!
Hard cheese (like the "only cheese" in USSR or like Rochefort was addicted to in Chip&Dale The Resque Rangers)
Soft cheese (like Mozarella)
Aged cheese - выдержнный сыр
Cream cheese (which is, really, white soft butter)
Cottage cheese (творог)
Ricotto (which is some kind of cross between cheeses)
Now other milk products:
Sour cream - сметана. But it is more solid and a bit less sour.
Sweet cream or cream - сливки.
Half-and-half - a combination of milk and cream in proportion 50/50.
Whole milk (3% fat). Just regular milk.
Reduced-fat milk (2% fat).
1% milk - self-explanatory, right
Skim milk (fat-free) - cнятое молоко.
Buttermilk - liquid that remains in the churn after you made butter in that same churn. So, protein but almost no sugars and no fat. Makes absolutely gorgeous pancakes.
Butter - same as Russian.
Margarine - same as Russian. Made out of partially hydrogenated plant oils. I recommend that you avoid it like a plague; it's pretty unhealthy.
Yogurt is not кефир! Кефир is "sour milk", or Middle-eastern yogurt, or by an indigenous name like "kislo mleko" or "kefir".
Yogurt is Dannon or whatever brand is popular in Moscow now, pretty much. This is just the bacteria they have for making it, for some reason. Turns out the same way if you make it at home with their culture.
What am I forgetting?
A random thing:
"Dumpling" can be Chinese or Siberian, which has meat inside. People also call them "ravioli", but unless those are specified as having meat inside they are usually stuffed with some sort of cheese. The traditional "dumpling" is a European thing, it's like "клётцки", as in, just batter without stuffing. So if you are in a traditional American restaurant (and there are a few), the dumplings can offer you an unexpected surprise.
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26.07.2008 в 20:50It's just I've met something really unexpected done with yogurt, but don't remember what it was. But it gave me suspiction that you have some other yogurt than us here...
And how are пельмени called? I always thought it was somewhere in dumplings toom though thy are sometimes called ravioli here... but THAT is really not the same IMHO even with meat.
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26.07.2008 в 22:24I can't even guess about buttermilk ))
Funny thing is, people here use yogurt as breakfast food (with berries or cereal) or as dressing for Indian food, and that's pretty much it. But Americans from India, Pakistan, etc use it so much more and in so many different ways that you can see the strangest recipies... Yogurt here is really pretty similar to Dannon, though, most of the time.
I call пельмени "dumplings". So does Kevin. My guess is that someone might call them "meat ravioli". Although yes, they are really different. I have heard them called "pirogi" and I have no idea where that comes from.
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27.07.2008 в 14:01-
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28.07.2008 в 04:19-
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28.07.2008 в 11:49-
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28.07.2008 в 12:45-
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28.07.2008 в 19:17Kleo Scanti There are different words for different kinds of запеканка. sa far as I know. generally, it would be a "baked dish". Запеканка with spagetti would be baked spagetti. With meat, corn and veggies - Shepherd's pie. With bread, "bread pudding". Was the spagetti one the one you had in mind?
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28.07.2008 в 19:29-
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29.07.2008 в 00:37-
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29.07.2008 в 16:18Kleo Scanti Huh. I don't even know how this one looks like... This might even be "cheesecake", seriously. Or "cottage cheese casserole" if it is not sweet. Or "cottage cheese pudding". I don't believe I've ever seen one like that before.
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29.07.2008 в 16:28I don't believe I've ever seen one like that before.
You never had творожная запеканкка in school or at home? Never ever? How couls it be??? (I hate it like most cottage cheese things but) it was almost standart in schools... and in home coooking, honestly.
And, BTW, now I sometimes see it ready-made in foodstores. It's really called cheesecake...
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29.07.2008 в 16:44A horrible mystery revealed: I never ate at daycare or school. Never-ever once in my life. Preferred to go hungry. And the only cottage cheese dishes made at home were сырники (cottage cheese pancakes) and cottage cheese with tons on jelly. So no, never came across it. The one запеканка I actually know relatively well is the spagetti-and-raisin one. Is it sweet? Because if it is, then it has to be cheesecake. Not the current one, but the traditional one; that's how they were cooked before.
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29.07.2008 в 16:56yes, it's sweet, it usually foea as dessert with some sort of dressing (in schools it was kissel). So... cheesecake it is?
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29.07.2008 в 17:24If it is sweet, then definitely cheesecake.
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29.07.2008 в 17:30-
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29.07.2008 в 18:12-
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31.07.2008 в 21:27Right. To kick the dead horse of "запеканка" a bit more, if I may. From the perspective of British English.
Here it would be "xxx bake". So, "potato and mushroom bake". By analogy, while the dish is not common around here, if you were to refer to "запеканка" as "cottage cheese and honey (or whatever) bake", you would normally be understood.
An exception that comes into mind is when you bake boiled cauliflower with cream under cheese topping. That's called "cauliflower cheese".
"Baked dish" would never be used, unless it was on its own and referred purely to the method of preparation.
"Casserole" would not be an appropriate word to use in England, as it describes something of a more liquid consistency. Something that is closer to "ragu".
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31.07.2008 в 21:41The "cauliflower cheese" in the US is called either "cauliflower puree" (if you puree it) or "cauliflower casserole".
Interesting. Didn't realize "casserole" is a synonim of American "stew"...
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31.07.2008 в 21:46good recipe, btw. Never heard of it here. I adore cauliflower, but my partner does not, so I'm always at loss how to make with it something interesting for us both. I''ll try it, as he usually approves my baking experiments.
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